Avery Ready Index Template

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One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 00:29, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

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Assessment

I am assessing this article as Start / Low. Even if copyright issues with the text have been resolved, the current article still reads as rather promotional. It should be re-written to comply with WP:NPOV. Further expansion is also needed, see WP:WPSCH/AG for ideas. Camaron · Christopher · talk 21:43, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Avery Coonley School/GA1

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FAC suggestions

• Place information about the windows, sold at auction, to a separate notes section to appear as a footnote.
• This is my personal idiosyncrasy, but lose the GoogleBooks links. My second go-round in the article will look at your cite methods.
• Include examples of new pedagogical theories as espoused by "Francis Wayland Parker, John Dewey, and others" and the Kindergarten Education Association. It appears the teaching methods of the school are as much a topic of the article as the building itself. where children learned from experience and social interaction as opposed to what? What kind of education preceded these theories? What did John Dewey say about the ACS in his book? A sentence or two about his opinions?
• These theories, for which the school was a proving ground, You haven't really named or identified new theories, just described some ways that education at ACS was different.
• It became the leading professional journal of the movement, this is vague. Has the movement been identified by name yet?
• As non-Americans cannot relate to 2nd grade, 3rd grade, and such, I included the ages relative to these grades in traditional American education. However, since Coonley wanted a k program for younger students than 5, it's worth stating if grade promotion was based on age or other factors. Could students skip grades?
• Why were larger facilities deemed necessary: for space, for some other purpose? For student demand?
• Hartman's descriptions of ACM...include some. See Mary_mcleod_bethune#School_in_Daytona.
• Morse died in 1940, after 34 years at the head of the school, leaving a vacuum in leadership. Wasn't Coonley also a leader?
• Any examples of findings or results from the Institute for Educational Research?
• and the school believed their non-traditional frameworks, harking back Coonley and Morse, The school really didn't believe this. People did. The board that ran the school? Headmaster? Teachers?
• well-suited to the needs of gifted students Again, be more specific. What does this mean? Academically accelerated courses? Free thinking no-desk classrooms?
• special challenges and abilities of gifted learners like what? I encountered many people who considered gifted ed an elitist program for rich and pampered children. What needs do gifted students have that are generally not met by regular ed curricula? And how does ACS meet these needs?
• The traditional school projects and annual events What are these?
• and is a stopover for several species of migratory birds nesting? mating? feeding? For how long? During what season?
• Who called Jens Jenson that father of Chicago park system and dean of the Prairie style of landscape architecture?
• interesting water features WP:PEACOCK. This is someone's opinion, yes? State whose.
• His original landscape design was restored in 2006. What happened to it that it needed restoration?
• Include highlights of Prairie and Arts and Crafts Movements that are present at ACS.
• Lots of funky redesigns of classrooms were prominent during the 70s, that drug-soaked decade that enacted all kinds of nuttiness without any evidence that redesigning classrooms actually did any good. What is the reasoning behind putting students in wooden honeycombs? What is it supposed to do? Does it actually do it?

• Go through the article and watch for the use of "the school". I saw it so many times I cannot pick it out any longer.
• I don't focus on architecture, but ask User:GiacomoReturned to look at the article and make suggestions. Similarly, if you're interested in what might be improved for the preserve parts, ask User:Ruhrfisch to give suggestions.

Brain fried for today. Must go look at lolcats or such to restore concentration. I will return to copy edit the rest of the article tomorrow, however. Let me know if you have questions. --Moni3 (talk) 22:47, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments As requested I took a look at the whole article and am reviewing it as I would at WP:PR, with an eye especially to the park section. I agree this looks pretty good, but here are some suggestions for improvement with an eye to the next FAC. Many of these are nitpicks, but part of FAC is making sure all the details are taken care of.

• I read for comprehension, but noticed some typos etc. Just in the lead for example there is a word missing here: From the 1970s on, [the] mission of Avery Coonley has been the education of gifted children.
• The lead seems a bit sparse to me, especially the second paragraph. My rule of thumb is to include every header in the lead in some way, but as one example "Junior Elementary School (1915-1929)" does not seem to be explicitly mentioned in the lead.
• At the same time, there are parts of the lead that are somewhat repetitive. The first sentence says it is an independent, coeducational day school serving academically gifted students. The last sentence of the first paragraph says From the 1970s on, mission of Avery Coonley has been the education of gifted children. The last phrase of the first sentence of the third paragraph seems overly repetitive The progressive legacy is still evident in the modern curriculum, which was adapted in the 1970s for gifted students.
• The lead should either be cited like everything else, or have no references except for direct quotations and extraordinary claims. The current lead is a mix - the last two sentences of the first and third paragraphs have no refs, despite the direct quote ("dumbing down") in the third paragraph. Most people seem to prefer a lead with minimal references, but it is your call.
• I am troubled by this claim (my bold) Morse and Krum had attended Elizabeth Harrison's Kindergarten College, one of the first teachers' colleges in the country,[16] where they had studied the educational theories of Francis Wayland Parker, Dewey, and others. The article on Normal schools says the first was founded in France in 1685 and in the US in 1839. It seems a bit of a sweeping claim to attribute to a 1915 Guide to Schools, especailly when we later learn the school taught theories ... opposed to more traditional pedagogical practices of the day, which makes it sound like more of an upstart than one of the first.
  • Aha, this later became NCE, then National-Louis University - I think this should be clarified. In any case it was founded in 1886, decades after the first Normal Schools.
• The whole National Historic Landmark (NHL) issue is fuzzy and needs to be clarified. The main Coonley House is a NHL, but the cottage is not. WHat is currently written makes it sound as if the cottage is a NHL A small cottage on the Coonley estate--now a National Historic Landmark[21]--served as the first incarnation of the school... Perhaps something like "A small cottage on the Coonley estate served as the school's first building; the estate's main Coonley House is now a National Historic Landmark." (incarnation seems a bit odd too)
• It might be useful to mention the Quuene Ferry Coonley started a second kindergarten in Brookfield, Illinois - see here, which was designed by Drummond and is now on the Historic American Buildings Survey and see all materials on it here
• Needs a ref In 1916, the Cottage School was closed and a first grade program was launched at the Downer's Grove kindergarten, which was renamed the Junior Elementary School. To accommodate older students, a second grade class was added in 1920 for students around 7 years old, a third grade in 1926 for 8-year-olds, and a fourth grade for 9-year-old students shortly thereafter.
• Watch WP:OVERLINKing - Francis Wayland Parker isl inked twice in the body of the article, for example
• awkward ...and it was renamed The Avery Coonley School, in honor of Coonley's then-late husband. perhaps ..and it was renamed The Avery Coonley School, in honor of Coonley's late husband, who had died in YEAR.
• The last section of History "Gifted education (1968-present)" does not cite anything later than 1980, which is 30 years ago. I realize some of this is covered later in the "Recent additons" section, but it seems odd to have a section that goes to the present not mention any date more recent than 1980.
• Images - I realize these are mostly covered by OTRS permissions, but some of them seem like they could be replaced with better quality (higher resolution / larger) images. For example, the lead image, gatehouse, and cloisters images are all tiny, but each looks like it would be pretty easy to replicate (once the weather is better).

• I would also make sure the information for each image is as complete and consistent as possible - links to the actual pages showing the image would help (the cloisters image is at http://www.averycoonley.org/?page=mission, and the lead image and several others are at http://www.averycoonley.org/?page=acshistory I would also make sure that the OTRS ticket image is hsown clearly - in some images it is just a link.

OK, more later (finsihed History) Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 18:08, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

• For the adjoining forest preserve, although we don't know the exact date it was established, we do know it is one of the oldest and that the DuPage Forest District was established in 1915, so I think it could be something like It borders Maple Grove, one of the oldest forest preserves in the DuPage County system, which was established in 1915. The preserve protects the last of the once-vast maple forests that covered the area...
• I was hoping there was an Audubon guide to Maple Grove - there is not one online that I found, but this resource gives a lot of background on the area's ecological history. I know you want to foucs on the school, but it might help to mention that this was once prairie and forest (and that the name "grove" in Downer's Grove comes from forests like the one preserved in Maple Grove.)
• I note that the official Maple Grove map has a few things that might be added to the description in the article - 1.1 miles (1.8 km) of trails, small creek, hawks, trout lilies, violets, picnic area. There is even {{cite map}} if you need it for the ref ;-)
• In an article like this aimed at a general reader that is not primarily about the preserve or its flora and fauna, I usually do not provide the Latin names if there is a common name (although it is fine by the MOS if you want to). I think whatever you do you should try to be a bit more consistent, so Black Maple could be linked as a species, or if you are going to keep Latin names, Trillium should be consistent with the other plants (though "...Trillium (Trillium)..." does look funny). I think from a Google search that upland maple is just a kind of sugar maple here - see this, but you might want to contact the forest district and see if they can clarify that.
• Needs a ref The design reflects the Prairie School in its horizontal lines .... and visible craftsmanship in the tiling, brickwork, ironwork, and other details.
• The basic unit of the Learning Spaces in the photo appears to be a Truncated octahedron (as it has both hexagonal and square faces) - a true octahedron has all triangular faces.
• The use of "group" in the caption Interconnected "Learning Spaces" in the third group classroom, designed in 1970 and patented by the school[60] is before the concept has been introduced later in the article. The text next to it uses grade instead of group The original structures were still in use in the third grade classroom in 2010.
• A bit unclear In the late 1980s, increased enrollment and the need for more space led to another new addition in 1992.[2] How about something like Increased enrollment in the late 1980s and the need for more space led to another addition in 1992.[2]
• Academic Program - I think this needs some sort of "as of 2009" qualifier to place the program described into context for the reader (assume it will change and has changed with time)
• I want to see a photo of all the students in identical brown capes silently building a cornucopia of food!

• Ref 87 is missing the publisher (Trib)
• It sounds like a wonderful school - is there any criticism of it? Some might ask for such to try and be more NPOV.

• I made a few edits to fix typos etc, please revert if I made errors.
• Usually Notes are separated from References by a (sub)header of some sort

Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog. I do not watch reviews like this, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 22:28, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

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Mascot

The mascot seahorse File:Avery_Coonley_Logo.PNG. It's a none free image. Maybe it is not required for this article? Does the OTRS ticket perhaps cover the image anyway. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 22:33, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

--Nasty Housecat (talk) 01:06, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ OTRS has confirmed that the logo is not freely available (see nomination at WP:TFAR). Do you have any other issues with the acceptable use of this image? --Nasty Housecat (talk) 20:20, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Per your comments on the TFAR page: Please clarify your position so I can respond. If I can attempt to summarize what you have said and respond:

1. The image is not free. That is true. But it is used under logo fair use, which allows "a logo [that] identifies an organization in an article or section about the organization." Template:Logo fur Given that the article specifically mentions the seahorse mascot, the image is surely relevant.
2. The image is free, and therefore questionable, and should be deleted. If free, it should not be deleted, since free images are always allowed. Rather, the license tag should simply be changed to CC-BY-SA for accuracy.
3. The image is free so the license is invalid. OTRS has said that image is not free, for reasons I myself did not fully understand. But since they have the license text and we do not, we have to take their word for it. Their view is that it is non-free and so must be fair use.

If your position now is that the fair use rationale is invalid, please say why. I will note that the school infobox template specifically includes a place for a mascot image, any many of the school articles here use such images without a problem. Is there something about this particular image that violates fair use that I perhaps I just don't see?

In the interest of clarity and resolution, I have requested an expert opinion at WP:MCQ in addition to Moonriddengirl's request for expert comment from OTRS. The more clearly you can articulate your objection, the more helpful they can probably be. --Nasty Housecat (talk) 15:03, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

--Nasty Housecat (talk) 16:35, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

I will wait a bit before restoring the image in case there are additional comments from other editors on this issue. --Nasty Housecat (talk) 14:55, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

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"independent"

Isn't "independent" more of a Britishism when it comes to describing schools that are private rather than state-run? In the US usually such schools are just called "private," in my experience. Though perhaps "independent" is a term the Avery Coonley School itself uses? At any rate, it seems that it might be good to include the word "private" somewhere in the lede paragraph, as, with the advent of charter schools in the US, there are more and more schools that can be said to be "independent" of a school district but still public. --Jfruh (talk) 00:57, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

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Omission?

One of the relevant questions in a school article is, did their selection and methodology work? Who are the notable alumni? Is "List of Boston Latin School alumni" the only such article? It is understandable that the school itself does want to be put into the position of deciding who is notable, but that is where Wikipedia comes in. 173.73.189.153 (talk) 17:47, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

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Windows

So I'm New York and I spent the day at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and what should I see as I was peeking around looking for American paintings, but Frank Lloyd Wright's Avery Coonley Playhouse windows. I took pictures, but can't upload them just yet. And I don't think I could have taken them without getting my reflection. I took a few standing in different positions, hoping my reflection wouldn't be too prominent. Let me know if you're interested. --Moni3ontheroad (talk) 21:47, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Nasty Housecat, I really apologize for the tardiness of this. First, I often wander around and forget stuff I post here. Second, I took several images of the windows in the Met with my phone, which has a surprisingly good camera, but the stupid phone part won't send images to my email address. I had to save this from a Facebook upload, which is poorer resolution. I also had a few shots where I was not so prominent in the reflection. Urf. However, I figure it's better than nothing...

Anyway, use at your will. --Moni3 (talk) 16:43, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

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